Welcome, Guest
Username Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Discuss Season Four Episodes

Discuss Season Four Episodes 1 year, 10 months ago #11138

  • Matt Dillon
  • Lord High Emperor
  • Hufflepuff
  • Posts: 686
This is the thread that you can use to discuss episods from Babylon 5's FOURTH season. There's no time limit on discussion, so feel free to talk about any episode that we've already covered in as much detail as you like - we'll be monitoring these threads, and the best chatter will get read out on the Babble On Project!

Please be certain, however, to place any spoilers from upcoming episodes (i.e. episodes that we have not yet covered on the show) within spoiler tags - and be especially careful when discussing plot elements from beyond this season as a whole!

A spoiler tag looks like this:

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

You can reveal the secrets within by giving it a click!

Thanks, and happy chatting!
Matt Dillon
Publisher, GeekPlanetOnline.com
- "Perhaps it is something I said."
- "Perhaps it is everything you say."
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ivanina

Falling Towards Apotheosis 1 year, 9 months ago #11147

Sorry, I meant to post this earlier, but missed the cutoff.

During my last re-watch of B5, I happened to be reading Joseph Campbell's book, "The Hero with a Thousand Faces". For those who are unfamiliar with it, the book is a mind-blowing exploration of the common themes of human myths, legends, and all kinds of other stories humans have been telling each other throughout the ages. The key idea that Campbell developed is the monomyth, also known as The Hero's Journey, a series of stages that a hero typically goes through in his/her quest (a call to adventure, getting the assistance of magical companions, undergoing various trials, death and re-birth, etc.)

Excellent summaries of the various stages are available at the following links:



One of the stages along the Hero's Journey is entitled "Apotheosis", which the above websites describe as follows:

To apotheosize is to deify. When someone dies a physical death, or dies to the self to live in spirit, he or she moves beyond the pairs of opposites to a state of divine knowledge, love, compassion and bliss. This is a god-like state; the person is in heaven and beyond all strife. A more mundane way of looking at this step is that it is a period of rest, peace and fulfillment before the hero begins the return.

A hero's apotheosis is achieved when he comes to a realization about the purpose of life and himself. With an expanded consciousness, he views the world in an entirely different way than when he first started his journey. Usually, the hero at this point becomes a selfless person who always cares for others before himself.

If you prefer a lengthier explanation with clips from Hollywood movies, there's one here here:


The step just before apotheosis also seems quite relevant to this episode:

Atonement with the Father: In this step the person must confront and be initiated by whatever holds the ultimate power in his or her life. In many myths and stories this is the father, or a father figure who has life and death power. This is the center point of the journey. All the previous steps have been moving in to this place, all that follow will move out from it. Although this step is most frequently symbolized by an encounter with a male entity, it does not have to be a male; just someone or thing with incredible power. For the transformation to take place, the person as he or she has been must be "killed" so that the new self can come into being. Sometime this killing is literal, and the earthly journey for that character is either over or moves into a different realm.

While the show was still in production, JMS claimed that, though he was aware of Campbell's work, he was not consciously trying to make the story fit into the stages Campbell described. However, I can't help but think that Campbell's ideas must have influenced his choice of title, even if only subconsciously. The parallels with the current phase of Sheridan's life and the events of this episode seem so obvious.

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

Anyway, I found it interesting and thought I would share. Cheers!

P.S. Regarding "The Worst Marriage Proposal Ever", I like the way she pets the little box with a puzzled look on her face, but, yeah, otherwise it's a bit of a letdown. I can't help but imagine her misunderstanding his clumsy explanation of the tradition and heading off to the Zocalo to get him a ring and then winding up in the wrong shop, where she'd have to tell the shopkeeper, "Oh no, I don't think that would work. His hands are big, but that is far too big for any of his fingers..."

Re: Discuss Season Four Episodes 1 year, 8 months ago #11151

I'm a few podcasts behind and have just listened to episode 36 The Hour of The Wolf. I was just wondering if Lorien is the First One in the Universe or just our galaxy? I think one of you said he was the First One in The Universe but Babylon 5 seems to be set only in The Milky Way. References to "The Rim" and quadrants and sectors on point to a single galaxy setting as do the distances mentioned. Also I can't remember any references to other galaxies.

Sorry for the astrophysics pedantry but that's just me.
"Intelligence has nothing to do with politics", Londo Mollari, Babylon 5

The Summoning 1 year, 8 months ago #11153

The discussion about Garibaldi's brain washing got me thinking about some spoilery stuff

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
"Intelligence has nothing to do with politics", Londo Mollari, Babylon 5

Re: Discuss Season Four Episodes 1 year, 8 months ago #11161

Greeting from Sunny but not yet warm Tucson,
Just finished listening to your podcast on the end of the Shadow War. Thank you. Today I needed to travel to a meeting in Phoenix and back. Your podcast was perfect for this mind numbing round trip. You entered Red Sector when I returned home. Well done.

So here are some of my thoughts from Interstate 10 (I-10).
1. I have to find a way to get the following quote into my normal conversations, "you're not a married man are you?" Dead man walking. Awesome.
2. Sheridan mentions that after the conflict, they do not have to be afraid of shadows. However he should count the shadows. Happy Vashta Nerada to you . Yes I finally understand your Doctor Who references. That is what I have been doing since my last forum entry. I finally made the commitment to become Doctor Who literate. Yes I have a sad life.
3. There was some discussion on the best Sit-Com on TV. It is probably a generational thing. But I did love Taxi growing up, but also WKRP in Cincinnati (). Perhaps it is an acquired taste.
4. Finally I believe the White Star captain (Bryant Cranston) faked his own death. I would have loved to see a scene with him putting together a fake recording of the battle with his young partner in a Winnebago (Mr. White how did you get such perfect crystals. Well if you paid attention in class...)

There are other musings, but they were lost due to a mind numbing drive. Oh I wrote that already. Sorry.

I never enjoyed season 4 due to the trouble with Mr. GariBALDi (too much testosterone surging to those hair follicles). At the end of season 3, Garibaldi would load nuclear bombs on a white star for Sheridan. Their mutual trust and respect was expressed in a manly way by simply talking about the weather (Bromance). Perfect. During season 4 however, Garibaldi's distrust tainted their relationship. Every time Garibaldi spoke of it, I cringed. 'Cause it feels just like I'm walkin' on broken glass.

Look forward to your next podcast.
Andrew from Tucson

Re: Discuss Season Four Episodes 1 year, 7 months ago #11166

  • PieMan70
  • Peacekeeper
  • A man who likes Pie
  • Posts: 151
A bit extra on top of my feedback, just to slightly expand on the discussion from "Into the Fire" form last cast. Regarding Sheridan and Delenn on the same ship. (No need to read it out and such, just thought it was an interesting topic for further discussion)

I have tried to reconcile this in my head, But it doesn't work. Basically the fleet can work two ways, Sheridan and Delenn are co-commanders and command the fleet as a Duo. This is problematic at best as having two people issuing orders, regardless of how in synch they are, as there is a risk that they issue conflicting orders. Arguably this is best served with them on the same ship but private communication between the two of them could be served with communications (If comms are jammed issuing orders is pretty academic) and means there will be no break in command if one of their ships is destroyed. So it would make more sense to be on separate ships.

A more logical system would be to have the fleet split into groups, which are then commanded by a senior officer (Ivanova for example) one of Sheridan and Delenn (My view would be Delenn who I reckon has more experience commanding fleets) are in overall control who order each battle-group rather than individual ships to perform certain tasks. In this case Delenn would be "Admiral" Sheridan would command 1st Battle-group, Ivanova 2nd etc. The upshot of this is that if the "Admiral" is killed then there is a clear chain of command that follows. In this case you could have them on the same ship but ultimately it still encounters the problems of the first, you loose the leader and the commander of the 1st Battlegroup in one strike.

Anyone got a way this works, my headcannon hurts

Re: Discuss Season Four Episodes 1 year, 7 months ago #11179

I love the show, never posted before...

But you comment about Sheridan treatment of Lita as well as Sheridan and Garibaldi in the last two episodes are the rise of what I call God-Emperor Sheridan...

God-Emperor Sheridan... the guy who came back from the dead after nukeing a first one home world
the guy that told the oldest thing the setting to in net terms to G.T.F.O.

At this point God-Emperor Sheridan's ego is Massive.

The bad press in illusion of truth is what pushes God-Emperor Sheridan to his next acts over the next 2 years...

I know this is an Alternative Character Interpretation but it played with well.
Last Edit: 1 year, 7 months ago by The Mark. Reason: getting rid of anything like a spoiler

Discuss Season 4 episodes 1 year, 6 months ago #11207

Spoilers- Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers- Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers- Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers- Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers- Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers- Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers NOT KIDDING SPOILERS Spoilers- Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
Spoilers- Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers- Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers- Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers...

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
Last Edit: 1 year, 6 months ago by Gillian Coyle. Reason: putting spoiler text into spoiler tags, moving to S4 thread, as thread title is spoilery.
The following user(s) said Thank You: PieMan70

Re: Discuss Season Four Episodes 1 year, 6 months ago #11209

I'd like to a apologise to the 7:03 to padington this morning
for the cracking up over Scientist Salarian

Re: Discuss Season Four Episodes 1 year, 6 months ago #11226

  • Martin
  • Damned Dirty Ape
  • Better the Sea Devil You Know
  • Posts: 750
I haven't done any feedback recently but I've really been enjoying season 4 especially the stuff set on Centauri Prime with Emperor Fruitloop.

Ok, so just caught up with Epiphanies and The Illusion of Truth and I've really enjoyed both. A few thoughts though: Lyta's definitely going to get a hickey from Kenickie! Although I don't think that Zack is taking advantage of Lyta (no dollar for the douchebag jar here. Anyway, Londo's filled it up) I would say that he's definitely sweet on her. Better watch the Most Important Pizza in the Universe too, you might need to feed it to a very grumpy planet. I love Lyta complaining about nobody ever dropping in to see her and the fact that she's been shopping to do up her rather spartan room. Speaking of Zack, there's genuinely an American sitcom called "I Just want My Pants Back" Perhaps the title of his autobiography.

Why is everyone so keen to hear about Phase 2 from Bester? Surely they've all seen Avengers 2 in the future.

Loved The Illusion of Truth too. A brilliant idea to show the whole news report and it really adds to the wider universe. That silent scene at the end is heartbreaking too.
My dream is to open a pub called The Go Go Gadget Arms
The following user(s) said Thank You: ServalHeart
Time to create page: 0.18 seconds